Curse

Konker2020 · Nov 18, 2009, 12:56 PM // 12:56

Quote:

The problem with elite areas as they stand currently is that they only appeal to the hardcore "elite" players of Guild Wars.

As others have said, you killed your argument by contradicting yourself in the first line.

Elite areas are elite, let it be...

They were intended to be more difficult than the rest of the game, get over it, they don't need to be toned down, they are fine the way that they are. When they make them physically impossible to complete without running specific builds, then they need to fix them, but I doubt that it will ever happen.

Zahr Dalsk · Nov 18, 2009, 01:15 PM // 13:15

By the way, it's been casuals doing elite areas for a long time. Ursan groups, now SF SC groups. And before either of those, back in Nightfall, we had cookie cutter group (aka "balanced" way). All of which were groups of casuals, using mindless builds.

The issue isn't that a casual can't do these areas, it's that an H/H player can't do them.

Eragon Zarroc · Nov 18, 2009, 01:41 PM // 13:41

Elite areas are called elite areas because they are intended for elite players, not just the casual players.

If you make the one thing that is slightly challenging compared to the rest of this game and tone it down so that it easier for people that put less time and effort into the game, what is left to challene the hard-core players? There is no such thing as "casual elite" because it is a contradiction. Either put in the time and effort to overcome elite areas or don't worry about beating them at all and remain in your casual gaming environment.

Chthon · Nov 18, 2009, 06:24 PM // 18:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by ammad2006

Tone down the difficulty of some elite missions

I'm sorta on board with this. Though I'd be more in favor of "tone down the specific spots in some of the elite missions that force you to narrowly build wars the mission." There's nothing wrong with the overall difficulty of the monsters in UW, for instance. The problem is 4Horsemen and Servants of Grenth forcing you to build wars a split for them. Suddenly your team composition options constrict drastically. Simply making those two quests "balanced team friendly" would do the trick, IMO.

Quote:

Improve the enemy AI and make the aggro bubble slightly larger than the casting bubble.

No.
First, a-net doesn't have a good AI person. Significant improvement is simply never going to happen.
Second, mucking with the aggro range is going to break all sorts of stuff all over the game. Pulling won't work. Quest NPC's will get killed before you can reach them. Mobs you are supposed to avoid will become unavoidable. It's a terrible idea.

Now, what seems to really be bothering you is tank-n-spank. Well, there's better fixes for that:
1. Nerf perma.
2. Two small AI changes: First, AI includes for target consideration things that recently did damage to them within 1.5 aggro bubbles range. Second, when selecting its target, AI gives no weight for proximity or current-target-ness to a potential target that it cannot damage.
(For those who don't understand how the AI targets, so didn't understand a word of that: Make the AI more likely to ignore guys it can't hurt and attack nukers camped out of range.)

Quote:

Make all weapons inscribable, however, make it so the only way to get inscriptions and weapon mods is from elite areas

This idea is terrible.

Were you around back in Prophecies when any perfect-modded item with a non-crafter/collector skins cost an arm and a leg? Do you really want to go back to that?

Pauli · Nov 18, 2009, 09:28 PM // 21:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pugs Not Drugs

And that is the problem. Having "elite" areas like that just promotes gimmicks. If they monsters adapted and responded to common builds, the elite areas would be much harder.

AI is fixed (isnt changing) and wont change. Extremely complex and "smart" AIs can still be used to the players' favor, and they'll probably do so. Furthermore, the resources that are required to design such AIs wont be spent now.

Zahr Dalsk · Nov 18, 2009, 09:38 PM // 21:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

Were you around back in Prophecies when any perfect-modded item with a non-crafter/collector skins cost an arm and a leg? Do you really want to go back to that?

Unfortunately there is a significant group of people who really do want that.

Nearly all of them are very wealthy, have played since beginning, are very nostalgic, think that sort of situation is a good thing, and think Prophecies wasn't shit.

HawkofStorms · Nov 18, 2009, 10:00 PM // 22:00

Hehe true that Zahr. /reminisce

*sigh*, back to reality

The solution proposed with weapon mods no longer dropping wouldn't even work. Its not like you could "get rid of" all the millions of weapon mods people already have. You can't force a change like that retroactively and expect it to have a change on the market.

Example, when people's existing armor got upgraded with the release of Nightfall and everybody got free insignas on their armor, the market and demand didn't really get affected that much since everybody was on a level playing field.

Arduin · Nov 18, 2009, 10:15 PM // 22:15

The more I read people's writings about 'casual players' the more the definition seems to shift from a person who just can't spent 3 hrs a day on this game, to a somewhat challenged person who is in need of extensive help to be able to play the game and who needs to be given every achievement without exerting themselves too much.

The Drunkard · Nov 18, 2009, 11:42 PM // 23:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by ammad2006

Tone down the difficulty of some elite missions

I wish they would make the mobs run decent builds like in slavers- juicing the monsters up to 30 with a 25% damage boost leads to degenerative gameplay.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ammad2006

Improve the enemy AI and make the aggro bubble slightly larger than the casting bubble.

Won't happen. Right now it's too big for anet to want to deal with since they're going to have to reinvent the wheel as far as a decent A.I.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ammad2006

Make all weapons inscribable, however, make it so the only way to get one,

/notsigned- the only weps that should even be touched are the greens from the end dungeons/areas

Aljasha · Nov 19, 2009, 02:55 PM // 14:55

first, get rid of monster and overpowered pve skills.
second, make all mob teams use synergies.
third, enhance mob ai to work as a team.
fourth, introduce "easy mode", which actually does NOT decrease the difficulty but reduce the "room count" and therefore time-investment.
fifth, reduce the chance to get "gosu" equipment from "easy mode"-chests.

Tenebrae · Nov 20, 2009, 01:07 PM // 13:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aljasha

fourth, introduce "easy mode", which actually does NOT decrease the difficulty but reduce the "room count" and therefore time-investment.
fifth, reduce the chance to get "gosu" equipment from "easy mode"-chests.

I didnt understand those 2 , btw you mean those changes in elite areas ? sounds kinda "unelite" :s

Pandora's box · Nov 20, 2009, 06:02 PM // 18:02

The only thing needed for causual players is to make all areas accessable by a team of hero/henchmen. There are enough hero/hench teambuilds posted to give every causual player a fair change in every Elite map. And with the dropping amount of players around this would also be a decent soltion for everyone who does not want to wait for experienced players to form a team.

MithranArkanere · Nov 21, 2009, 12:11 AM // 00:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shayne Hawke

[...]
Nerf junk like Shadow Form, 600/Smite, and Cryway first.
[...]

Word.
It doesn't matter the changes you made, if you don't have a look at gimmicks.
I have only 2 main reasons for not having done. SoO, Deep, Underworld, Duncan and Fissure of Woe.

One of them is time. I don't have much time lately, and some of them take more than 3 hours if you don't go SC.
Time is not a problem for Duncan or Anguish, you can make each mission separately. And for Deep and Urgoz, it never takes much more than 2 hours.
But in the Underworld, the steps are not saved, and you have to make all of them in one go. That may take more than 4 hours if you go "safer than sorry"·
If they added a way to save progress, then I could make it without SC.

The other reason is refusing to go SC. I've yet to see a team for SoO HM that is not asking for a full team of assassins. And the only non-assassins I know that have the book entry joined as leechers in assassins teams that let them in.
I don't care how easy it would be like that. I want to do it myself, not follow a bunch of assassins with obsidian armors and chaos globes. They all look the same too me and creep the hell out of me.

Tenebrae · Nov 21, 2009, 11:11 AM // 11:11

Well they didnt nerf the gimmicks wich takes X time , i doubt they do something about all elite areas wich would take 10X time.